HerbertElon, welcome to JP Morgan's headquarters. You're on the 51st floor, which is about the equivalent of the nowhere near where you go generally in space, but as high as we can get in New York City. But before we get started with you and Jamie, we had a very special guest that wanted to welcome you here this afternoon. And so your mother, May Musk, is here to welcome you.Elon，欢迎来到 JP Morgan 总部。你现在在51层，这个高度在太空面前根本不算什么，但这已经是我们在纽约城能到的最高处了。在你和 Jamie 正式开始之前，有一位非常特别的嘉宾想来欢迎你——你的母亲 May Musk 来了，请她来跟你打个招呼。
Elon MuskGreat.太棒了。
HerbertMay, please stand up.May，请起立。
Elon MuskI don't think you can see me or everybody here.我好像看不到你，也看不到在场的各位。
HerbertThey can see you. Yes, he can. This is your part.他们能看到你。对，能看到。这是你的时刻。
Elon MuskI I can't I actually can't see my mom, but I can hear her certainly. Okay. Oh, there you are. Okay.我，我——我其实看不到我妈妈，但我肯定能听到她的声音。好，哦，在那儿呢。好的。
May MuskWhat I'd like to say is when you were 3 years old and I told people I have a genius son, they would roll their eyes and then我想说的是，你3岁那年，我跟别人说我有个天才儿子，他们都会翻白眼，然后——
Elon MuskSure. Understandable. Frankly,当然，可以理解，说实话——
May MuskI knew I knew. And then when you said you wanted to start with rockets, then I rolled my eyes.但我知道，我就是知道。后来你说想去造火箭，那时候轮到我翻白眼了。
Elon MuskSure.是啊。
May MuskAnd then you did it. And so this is just a great party here and we celebrating.然后你真的做到了。所以今天这个聚会太棒了，我们都在庆祝。
Elon MuskSounds love you so much.妈，我真的非常爱你。
May MuskLove you too.我也爱你。
HerbertOne proud mama. Please.多么骄傲的妈妈。好了，请坐。
Jamie DimonSo let me Elon, welcome you. It's a really privilege to have you here on this momentous occasion. It is new for us, but it's an important thing. The trajectory of American innovation. We're here live. 3,500 people of our top individual investors around the world in 100 branches. There are 350 people here, 3,500 around the country. This is a very unique thing, by the way, because Elon has spoken to me about democratizing finance. This is part of it. Treating individual investors the same way institutions are treated and hedge funds and all those things. My view is it's a wonderful thing to do. Elon very brave by the way because I would never let my mother speak publicly when I was in the room. God knows what she would have said.那么让我来正式欢迎你，Elon。能请到你来参加这个特别的场合，是我们真正的荣幸。对我们来说这是全新的尝试，但它很重要——它关乎美国创新的走向。我们今天是现场直播，全球100个分支机构共3,500位顶级个人投资者在收看，现场有350人，全国还有3,500人在线。这件事很特别，因为 Elon 跟我谈过金融民主化的理念——这就是其中一部分：让个人投资者享受到和机构、对冲基金一样的待遇。我认为这是非常好的事情。还有，Elon 真的很勇敢——我绝对不会让我妈妈在我面前公开发言，天知道她会说出什么来。
Elon MuskI had no idea she was there actually.其实我根本不知道她在那儿。
Jamie DimonElon is the Edison of our time. I remember visiting Elon in Tesla like 15 years ago. A whole new way of building cars, vertical integration which had not been anything remote what our car companies are doing. Now you have SpaceX. I visited the SpaceX factory in California and it's exceptional to have more than 650 rockets. You told me one today putting satellites in space. You have 9,000 almost 10,000 Starlink satellites up there. Starlink 3 is coming which is a whole new generation which hopefully will replace some of these undersea cables. It's been an extraordinary 24 years with watching Elon grow over time and now making a massive leap into into the future. So, welcome and coming here. Elon, I have 10 questions for you. So, I want to make sure I get to each one. Some of them came from folks here. They're all important, but one just to start is why SpaceX public now? Because you had choices. You didn't have to. Why now?Elon 是我们这个时代的爱迪生。我记得大约15年前去 Tesla 拜访他——那是一种全新的造车方式，垂直整合，跟我们的汽车公司完全不一样。现在还有 SpaceX，我参观过加利福尼亚的 SpaceX 工厂，太震撼了——超过650枚火箭，你今天告诉我又有一枚在往太空送卫星。你们有将近10,000颗 Starlink 卫星在轨，Starlink 3 即将到来，那是全新一代，有望替代一部分海底光缆。过去24年里看着 Elon 一步步成长，如今迈出这样一次巨大的飞跃，真是令人叹为观止。欢迎来到这里，Elon。我准备了10个问题，希望每一个都能问到。其中一些来自现场的朋友，每一个都很重要。先从第一个开始：为什么现在把 SpaceX 上市？你本来有选择的，你不必这么做。为什么是现在？
Elon MuskYeah. I've been asked for many years about taking SpaceX public. So, it's probably been I don't know almost 10 years that people have been suggesting to me that I should take SpaceX public. We've been positive cash flow for quite a long time. I think since around 2014 2015 and we've been self-funding in fact in our private equity rounds they actually have not been fundraising rounds. They've been liquidity rounds for investors and and employees because we give everyone at the company stock and SpaceX has actually bought back stock in most of our sort of funding events.是的。多年来一直有人问我把 SpaceX 上市的事，我估计快接近10年了吧，一直有人建议我这么做。我们很早就实现了正向现金流，我想大概是2014、2015年前后开始的，一直是自给自足的状态。事实上，我们过去的私募轮融资并不真正是融资轮，而是流动性轮——为投资者和员工提供变现机会，因为公司给所有人都发股票，而 SpaceX 在大多数所谓"融资"活动中实际上是在回购股票。
Elon MuskSo what's different about now is that it's a number of things but we are embarking on a significant growth phase like a capital growth phase where we're we are going to put in orbit probably a 100,000 satellites but probably over 100,000 satellites just for communications and these will be of the version three and beyond versus version two and version one that are currently in orbit. Version three is, depending on how you count it, 10 to 20 times more capable than the version two satellite. And there were three chips that the SpaceX chip design team taped out that are specific to this that are far beyond state-of-the-art, which means it's it's 100 times more bandwidth than the SpaceX Starlink system currently offers and also half the latency because the altitude will be about half altitude. I think it will actually be the highest bandwidth, lowest latency means of communicating.那现在为什么不一样了？有几个原因，最重要的一点是我们正在进入一个重大增长阶段——资本密集型的增长阶段。我们计划向轨道发射大概10万颗卫星，甚至可能超过10万颗，仅用于通信，这些都是第三代及更新版本，而非目前在轨的第一代和第二代。V3 卫星的能力，取决于怎么算，是 V2 的10到20倍。SpaceX 芯片设计团队为此流片了三款专用芯片，远超当前业界最先进水平——这意味着带宽是 SpaceX Starlink 现有系统的100倍，同时延迟降低一半，因为轨道高度大约只有原来的一半。我认为它将真正成为带宽最高、延迟最低的通信手段。
Elon MuskAnd the future with AI and robots is actually going to require a lot more bandwidth than we currently use. Cuz you can imagine what's the bandwidth of a human? It's peak bandwidth of a human is a few hundred bits per second, but but bandwidth of a computer can be a trillion bits a second. So the appetite for bandwidth of AI and compute, AI and robots is going to be enormous. And then we're also doing the AI data centers and space which is another massive capital endeavor. But I think it'll be the primary means of by which AI can be expanded.而且随着 AI 和机器人的未来发展，实际需要的带宽会比我们现在用的多得多。想想人类的带宽是多少？人的峰值带宽也就几百比特每秒，但计算机的带宽可以达到每秒一万亿比特。所以 AI 和机器人对带宽的胃口将会是天文数字。另外，我们还在做太空中的 AI 数据中心，这又是一个巨大的资本项目，但我认为它将成为 AI 扩展的主要路径。
Elon MuskIt's increasingly difficult to build power plants on the ground. There are very few people who want a power plant in a backyard. So if we wanted to say double the electricity usage of the United States, which is on average about 500 gigawatt, we would have to build about twice as many power plants, which I don't think people are most communities are not super excited about that. But actually, if we go to space, we can go far beyond the electricity generation of Earth. In fact, this is going to sound crazy, but you could actually increase harnessed energy by a factor of a million and still be using much less than a millionth of the sun's energy.在地面上建电厂越来越难——几乎没有人想在自家后院旁边建一座电厂。如果我们要把美国的用电量翻倍，美国平均用电量大约是500 gigawatt，就得再建差不多同等数量的电厂，大多数社区对此不会太热情。但如果我们去太空，可以远远超出地球的发电能力。这听起来有点疯狂，但你实际上可以把人类利用的能量提升一百万倍，同时用到的还不到太阳能量的百万分之一。
Elon MuskSo, current human civilization uses much less than a trillionth of the sun's energy output, which is humbling to think about. We're really a tiny when you see the true size of Earth relative to the sun. We're a tiny dust mote in a vast darkness and the sun is enormous. The sun is 99.8% of all mass in the solar system and most of the remaining 2% is Jupiter. Sometimes people ask me maybe going a little wide ranging in this answer but cuz you just ask me why you're going public now. I'm like I'm like talking about the sun's output power. I'm like bit of a longwinded answer. If I was an AI, you might tell me to, you know, okay, but also现在人类文明使用的能量，远不足太阳输出能量的万亿分之一，这真的让人心生敬畏。当你真正看到地球相对于太阳的尺寸时，我们就是茫茫黑暗中一粒微小的尘埃，而太阳是庞然大物。太阳占整个太阳系所有质量的99.8%，剩余约2%大部分是木星。有时候人们会问……好吧，我这个回答扯得有点远了，因为你问的只是「为什么现在上市」，结果我开始聊太阳的输出功率了，这回答也太啰嗦了。如果我是个 AI，你可能会叫我停下来，但还是——
Elon Muskbut it is important. Some of these things are important because people sometimes wonder what's the future of energy generation. And the I can say that it is absolutely solar power or maybe a better word for solar power is star power. It's the power of a star. And the crazy thing is that burnt all mass in the solar system that was not the sun, the amount of energy produced by the sun would still round up to 100%. Because the sun is 99.8% of the mass of the solar system. Even if you teleported two more Jupiters from another somehow teleported two more Jupiters from another solar system and burnt them too, the sun would round up to 100%. It's so it's very much the sun and you could scale to a million times Earth's economy in space in terms of harnessed power which is a good proxy for economic output and still be much less than a millionth of the sun's energy which is humbling really to think about how tiny we are and this is just one star among many. So I guess the tail it would be we're embarking on a massive new growth phase and we need capital for that.不过这些是重要的。有些事情很重要，因为人们有时候会问未来能源从哪里来。我可以明确地说：答案一定是太阳能，或者说「星能」更贴切——星球的能量。奇妙的地方在于，就算把太阳系中所有非太阳的质量都烧掉，太阳产生的能量占比仍然四舍五入到100%，因为太阳是太阳系质量的99.8%。就算你从另一个太阳系传送两颗木星过来，全部烧掉，太阳还是四舍五入到100%。太阳就是这样绝对的主宰。而且你完全可以在太空中将人类经济扩大到地球的一百万倍——以利用能量来衡量经济产出——同时用到的还不足太阳能量的百万分之一。想想我们有多微小吧，这只是无数颗星球中的一颗。所以，总结起来就是：我们正在进入一个巨大的新增长阶段，需要资本来支撑它。
Jamie DimonOkay. Okay. Number two.好的。好。第二个问题。
Elon MuskAnother thing is the revenue like I I also feel pretty good about like the revenue projections but being like like before like revenue was a little unstable but but now I feel like the revenue is like much more predictable.还有一点，就是营收——我对营收预测现在感觉好多了。以前营收有点不稳定，但现在我感觉营收的可预期性强多了。
Jamie DimonYeah. I learned I always learned listening to you. I guarantee you. So I mean you people hear about multiplanetary species travel to space one of the most exciting ideas in human history. Can you explain the bridge that you were you speak about? I've heard you talk about from the Earth to the moon to Mars.是的，每次听你讲话我都能学到东西，这是真的。大家听过很多关于多星球物种、太空旅行的说法，这是人类历史上最令人振奋的构想之一。你能解释一下那条路线图吗？我听你说过，从地球到月球再到火星。
Elon MuskYeah. Yeah. So, you don't necessarily have to go through the moon to get to Mars. I just think that we can build a self-growing city on the moon faster than we could do so on Mars. And and there's also the potential if you say you want to scale far beyond what you can do from Earth is that because the moon has no atmosphere and about 16th Earth's gravity, you can use an electromagnetic accelerator, a rail gun or mass driver. Basically, you don't need to use rockets to to to do AI data centers into deep space from the moon. You can literally just shoot them like a rail gun type of thing. And you can manufacture the sol the solar and the radiators solar power and radiators on the moon from moon materials. That would allow scaling potentially to beyond a thousand terawatts a year which is a truly staggering number. Like I think we can do a thousand I think we can do probably somewhere around 1 terawatt per year of AI space compute from earth but we can do a thousand terawatts or more from the moon.对，其实去火星不一定要经过月球，但我认为在月球上建立一个自我扩张的城市，比在火星上做到这一点要快得多。另外，如果你想扩展到地球能力之外，月球有一个优势：它没有大气层，而且引力只有地球的六分之一，可以用电磁加速器——轨道炮或质量驱动器——把 AI 数据中心直接「打」到深空里，根本不需要火箭。你可以用月球本地的材料制造太阳能电池板和散热器，这样潜在的扩展量能超过每年1,000 terawatt，这是一个真正惊人的数字。从地球出发，我认为大概能做到每年1 terawatt 的太空 AI 算力；但从月球出发，可以做到1,000 terawatt 甚至更多。
Elon MuskAnd like said, we can also make a moon base. And I think it would be pretty pretty cool if you could vacation on the moon. That would be the most epic vacation. Not everybody wants to go to the moon, but I think a lot of people do. I think it would be pretty pretty amazing to to obviously provided you could do so safely and and come back safely and everything, but I think we I think that will be possible in the future. And then Mars is another step beyond that. That's Mars is a whole planet and with gravity much closer to that of Earth. And it has a an atmosphere, albeit with an atmosphere. And if you warm up Mars, you could one day make Mars like Earth, meaning with liquid oceans and life and where you could walk outside without a space suit type of thing. So Mars is I call Mars a fixer upper of a planet, but it's it's got a lot of potential.而且，我们也可以建月球基地。我觉得如果有一天能去月球度假，那将是史上最史诗级的假期。不是所有人都想去月球，但我认为很多人都想去。当然前提是安全往返，不过我觉得未来这是可能实现的。然后是火星，那是更远的一步。火星是一整颗行星，重力与地球接近得多，还有大气层——虽然目前的大气层稀薄。如果给火星加热，有朝一日可以让火星像地球一样：有液态海洋、有生命，可以在外面走动而不需要穿太空服。我把火星叫做「待翻新的行星」，它潜力巨大。
Jamie DimonI mean, let me go to number three, but I never ever thought you'd be in the hospitality business.好，进入第三个问题，不过我从来没想到你会进军酒店行业。
Elon MuskYeah, absolutely. We should have moon hotels, don't you think?当然，我们应该建月球酒店，你不觉得吗？
Jamie DimonYeah. Musk hotels. Like是啊，Musk 酒店，就像——
Elon Muskit could be other actually. You think of us more like we're kind of like the Union Pacific. When they built the Union Pacific back in the day, people thought they were crazy because like why are you trying to carry all this all this cargo and people to California? No one's there. But now California is the biggest state in the country.也可以是别人来建，其实我们更像是当年的联合太平洋铁路。当时他们建 Union Pacific 的时候，人们觉得他们疯了——你运那么多货物和人去加利福尼亚干什么？那边没有人。但现在加利福尼亚是美国最大的州。
Jamie DimonYeah. For not for long, but yeah.是啊，暂时还是，但是——
Elon MuskYeah. No, admittedly it's self-defeating. Yes.哈，没错，这话说出来有点自我矛盾了，是的。
Jamie DimonSo Starship, you built it. Unbelievable ship. I think it's already had 12 flights I read. But obviously technical technically it's just hard to do. What were some of the breakthroughs you had that people should know about that they don't know about?说到 Starship，你建成了它，令人叹为观止。我看资料说已经飞了12次了。但从技术上讲，这确实极其困难。有哪些突破是人们应该了解、但其实不太知道的？
Elon MuskWe we our webcasts are very good. So I recommend anyone who wants if they want to learn about Starship the SpaceX website or the any of the Starship live casts are great way to learn about it. But the really the fundamental breakthrough of Starship is that it will be the first orbital rocket that is fully reusable. So this might sound like an obvious thing, but because in every other mode of transport, whether that's aircraft, vehic, you know, cars, bicycles, horses, you name it, ships, these are all we take it for granted that there are reusable. An aircraft journey would be very expensive if you had to throw the plane away every time. And that's how rockets have been in the past. But it's very difficult from a technology standpoint to achieve full reusability for a rocket. We've got part of the way there with Falcon 9, but we'll get all the way there with Starship.我们的直播做得非常好，所以我建议任何想了解 Starship 的人去看 SpaceX 官网或者任何一次 Starship 直播，都是很好的入门方式。但 Starship 真正的根本性突破，在于它将是第一枚完全可重复使用的入轨火箭。这听起来好像显而易见，但仔细想想：所有其他交通方式——飞机、汽车、自行车、马、船——我们都理所当然地认为它们可以重复使用。如果每次坐飞机都要把飞机扔掉，票价会贵得离谱。过去火箭就是这样。但要让火箭实现完全可重复使用，在技术上极其困难。我们在 Falcon 9 上走了一半的路，Starship 会走完全程。
Elon MuskAnd once you achieve full reusability, then it's simply a cost. It's simply the the cost of access to to orbit is just the cost of propellant because now you can reuse all aspects of the vehicle. And the propellant we used for Starship is liquid oxygen and liquid liquid methane, which is the cheapest propellant you could possibly get. We can just literally get oxygen from the air and methane from natural gas. So the cost of propellant for Starship will be less than the cost of jet aviation fuel, which means that you should be able to actually send cargo to space for less than the cost of cargo on an airplane going on a trans oceanic trip.一旦实现完全可重复使用，进入轨道的成本就只剩推进剂的成本——因为运载工具所有部件都可以重复使用。Starship 用的推进剂是液氧和液态甲烷，这是你能找到的最便宜的推进剂，字面意义上就是从空气里取氧气，从天然气里取甲烷。所以 Starship 的推进剂成本将低于航空燃油的成本——这意味着把货物送上太空，实际上可以比跨洋航班的货运费用还要便宜。
Jamie DimonReally cool. Starlink. Another thing that has been amazing, global communications. We already mentioned Ukraine. You had mentioned to me that V3 would maybe be able to replace some of these cyber cables, which by the way is a huge security risk for all of us because several have already been cut in the Baltic Sea. So, what's the next view for Starlink, both V3 and maybe V4?真的很酷。Starlink，另一个令人惊叹的成就，全球通信。我们前面也提到了乌克兰。你跟我说过 V3 可能替代一部分海底光缆，顺便说一句，这对我们所有人都是巨大的安全隐患，因为波罗的海已经有好几根被切断了。Starlink 下一步的规划是什么？V3 和 V4 分别有什么计划？
Elon MuskYeah. So, the V3 satellite is a a gig and you can look it up on the internet. As I said, it's 10 to 20 times more capable than V2. It's a very big satellite. In fact, it can only be launched on Starship. It's so it's too big to be launched on any other rocket on Earth. So, Starship has a 30ft diameter cargo bay. And the the V3 satellites are, let's see, they're about 7 m, so about 20 22 23 feet wide. So, very big, like the size of a small bus essentially. And they there's a bunch of technical details about we have much bigger phased array antennas. We've got we've got more ground links. We've got more of our laser. Our satellites communicate with each other with lasers that we developed and manufacture. So, it's got a lot more lasers and more advanced lasers. It's also got Wband and Eband. These are technical details, but it's it's got a lot of it's trans it's it's like a crazy orbiting radio station.是的。V3 卫星，你可以去网上查，就像我说的，是 V2 能力的10到20倍。它是一颗非常大的卫星，事实上只能用 Starship 来发射，因为它对任何其他地球上的火箭来说都太大了。Starship 有一个直径30英尺的货舱，而 V3 卫星大约7米宽，也就是大概22到23英尺，基本上是一辆小型公共汽车的大小。技术细节上，我们有更大的相控阵天线，更多的地面链路，更多的激光——我们的卫星之间通过我们自研自产的激光互相通信。V3 有更多、更先进的激光，还配备了 W 波段和 E 波段。这些是技术细节，但总之它就像一座疯狂的轨道无线电站。
Jamie DimonAnd doesn't doesn't Starship do 12 of them or 15 at once?Starship 不是一次能发12颗或15颗吗？
Elon MuskIt should be able to do 50.应该能发50颗。
Jamie Dimon50.50颗。
Elon MuskYeah. Because Starship is Starship V3 is aimed at aiming to do 100 tons to orbit with full reusability. And then Starship V4, we're aiming for over 200 tons per mission and then being able to launch every hour.是的。因为 Starship V3 的目标是完全可重复使用的情况下将100吨载荷送入轨道。然后 Starship V4 我们的目标是每次任务超过200吨，同时能够每小时发射一次。
Jamie DimonNext one. Data centers in space. You've been talking about that. Other people have mentioned it, but obviously it has different technical capabilities. It's colder up there. It's less vibration, but you also got to get the data back to the Earth by some method. I think you mentioned be lasers in good weather and bad. And so, how hard is it to do now that you've looked at it for a while?下一个问题。太空数据中心，你一直在谈这个，别人也提到过，它显然有不同的技术优势——上面更冷、振动更小——但数据还是得通过某种方式传回地球。我记得你提到无论天气好坏都可以用激光。那你研究了一段时间之后，觉得这件事有多难做？
Elon MuskWe don't think this is a particularly difficult thing to do. In fact, we think it's easier than our communication satellites. Quite a bit easier than our communication satellites. The Starlink V3 communication satellites is an incredibly complex machine. The AI data center would be much simpler by comparison because it's really just solar power plus radiator, some basic equipment for operating the satellite and and then the laser links which would connect to the Starlink communication constellation and then back and then to the ground. And it would the connection would happen no matter what the weather is because once you connect via lasers to the Starlink communication constellation the Starlink communicates to the ground with frequencies that are cloud penetrating. So they in fact even roof penetrating to some degree. So you you would always be able to close link with the the data centers.我们认为这并不是特别困难的事，事实上，我们觉得它比我们的通信卫星要简单得多。Starlink V3 通信卫星是一台极其复杂的机器，而 AI 数据中心相比之下要简单多了，因为它本质上就是太阳能加散热器，加上一些基本的卫星操控设备，再加上激光链路——连接到 Starlink 通信星座，再传回地面。而且无论什么天气，连接都不会中断，因为一旦通过激光连接到 Starlink 通信星座，Starlink 再与地面的通信使用的是能穿透云层的频率，甚至在一定程度上能穿透屋顶。所以你永远都能和数据中心保持链路。
Jamie DimonExcellent. Talking about America. One of the big things here, we've been talking about the reindustrialization of America for a long time, bringing back advanced manufacturing, and now you're talking about building the terra fab, building chip fabs in New York. What what compelled you to do that now with all the other things you're working on?很好。说到美国，我们谈了很长时间美国再工业化的问题，把先进制造业带回来。现在你还在谈在纽约建 terra fab、建芯片工厂。在你做了这么多事情的情况下，是什么促使你现在决定做这件事？
Elon MuskWe try to So, what's the limiting factor? And the limiting factor, what we see as limiting factor is being able to make chips, both logic, memory, and packaging. It's worth noting that there's not a single high volume computer memory fab in America right now. Zero. There's one being built in Idaho by Micron, but that will not reach volume production till I believe 2028. And there's something built in New York, but they are in I think 29 and 30. And this is a tiny fraction of the memory that's needed. And in fact even if you take the best case assumptions of the the memory makers and the logic makers it is not enough to meet the demand that is anticipated which is why you're seeing stocks of micron go to I think 1.2 trillion or some quite high number. The so there's just clearly a need for AI logic, memory and packaging, AI computers essentially that is far beyond what even the best case assumptions of the existing fabricators can do and that's why we need to do the terra fab.我们会去想：限制因素是什么？在我们看来，限制因素在于能否制造芯片——逻辑芯片、内存芯片和封装。值得注意的是，美国目前没有一家大规模量产的计算机内存芯片工厂，一家都没有。Micron 正在爱达荷州建一家，但预计到2028年才能达到量产规模；纽约也有在建的，但我想是2029年和2030年。而且这些产能加在一起也只是所需内存的一小部分。事实上，就算把内存厂商和逻辑芯片厂商最乐观的假设全部加起来，仍然无法满足预期需求——这就是为什么你看到 Micron 的股票涨到我记得好像是1.2万亿美元，或者某个相当高的数字。所以，AI 对逻辑芯片、内存和封装——也就是 AI 计算机——的需求，显然远远超过了现有晶圆厂最乐观估计的产能，这就是我们必须建 terra fab 的原因。
Jamie DimonYeah, it's seems like essential otherwise we will not there will not be enough chips.是的，这看起来是关键所在，否则芯片就不够用了。
Jamie DimonSo I'm going to do one more on some of the stuff you're building and then a little bit more on other issues. AI strategy, you've also bought took Grok inside into SpaceX. How does that fit into this platform you're building?好，我再问最后一个关于你正在构建的业务的问题，然后再聊一些其他议题。AI 战略：你还把 Grok 并入了 SpaceX。这在你正在打造的这个平台里扮演什么角色？
Elon MuskUh yeah, there's it, you know, so we do intend with our the SpaceX AI satellites to allow people to put whatever GPU or TPU they want. So if Nvidia GPUs can be put on it, Google TPUs can be put on it, Amazon Traniums or any other chips that people want to put on can be put on. We will also offer our chips in the future and I think we also want to offer our software our AI software as well in the future. But but it it will be such that you can run anyone's AI on hardware or software on the Tesla AI satellite space AI satellites.嗯，是这样的——我们确实打算让 SpaceX 的 AI 卫星支持各种 GPU 或 TPU，不管是谁家的。Nvidia 的 GPU 可以放上去，Google 的 TPU 可以放上去，Amazon 的 Trainium 或者任何其他人想放的芯片都可以放上去。我们未来也会提供我们自己的芯片，以及我们自己的 AI 软件。但核心原则是：你可以在 SpaceX 的太空 AI 卫星上运行任何人的 AI 硬件或软件。
Jamie DimonYeah. The next So the next three are completely different. I'm going to mention each one. I'll each ask you each one, but one's about his view of patriotism, his service to this country. One's about culture and bench. How do you actually build these wonderful companies because a lot of people here have that those issues and then kind of leadership about I have a very specific question about that. But first, I'll start with patriotism. You've served this country. I know you're a patriot. We've spoken about it. How do you view your role of being an American patriot helping of the United States?好的。接下来三个问题完全不同，我会一个一个问。一个关于你的爱国主义观点和你对这个国家的贡献，一个关于文化和人才梯队——你是怎么实际构建出这些优秀公司的，因为在场很多人都面临这个问题——还有一个领导力问题，我有一个非常具体的问题。先从爱国主义说起。你为这个国家服务过，我知道你是个爱国者，我们也聊过这个话题。你如何看待自己作为一名美国爱国者、帮助美国的角色？
Elon MuskYeah, I'm an incredibly pro-American. So, and thankfully always have been. So, yeah. So, SpaceX does do a lot of work for the what used to be called the Department of Defense, the Department of War. These days the we have a division called Star Shield which provides military communications and and there's some other stuff that's kind of classified can't be talk can't talk about that but we are helping the Department of War and intel part of the government a vital element of that so yeah I'm yeah just super pro America always have been是的，我是非常、非常亲美的，感谢老天，一直都是。SpaceX 确实为以前叫国防部、现在叫战争部的机构做了大量工作。我们有一个叫 Star Shield 的部门，提供军事通信，还有一些其他业务涉密、不方便透露，但我们确实是战争部和情报系统的重要支柱。是的，我超级亲美，一直都是。
Jamie DimonThank you. Culture bench. Brent going with you for 15, 20 years. I know you've built a huge bench in SpaceX. How do you keep it going? What's important to you? How do you make sure you keep the best talent?谢谢你。关于文化和人才梯队，Brent 跟了你15到20年。我知道你在 SpaceX 建立了一支非常强大的团队。你是怎么保持下去的？对你来说什么最重要？如何确保吸引并留住最优秀的人才？
Elon MuskYeah, when was I think around the seventh person to join the company? And that was 2002. Uh so it's been like 24 years. And generally the senior executives of the company have a very long tenure. I think Brent Johnson's been CFO for 15 years. And yeah, like we I think because people really believe in the mission, I think they want to stay and they want to keep building it. Like we want to make humanity a space faring civilization. We want to take humanity to Mars and the moon and ultimately beyond. We want to make it's like science fiction. Make it real. Go to places that have never been explored before. Make Star Trek real.我记得我大概是公司第七个加入的人，那是在2002年，到现在已经24年了。公司的高管团队普遍任职时间很长，我想 Brent Johnson 已经做了15年 CFO 了。我认为，是因为大家真正相信这个使命，所以他们想留下来，想继续把它建起来。我们想让人类成为太空文明，我们想带人类登上火星和月球，最终走得更远。我们想把科幻变成现实，去探索那些从未被人类踏足的地方，把《星际迷航》变为真实。
Jamie DimonThat was one of my favorite shows.那是我最喜欢的节目之一。
Elon MuskYeah.对。
Jamie DimonExcellent. And then last one. You've built multiple companies. How have you changed from maybe 20 years ago? I should maybe I should ask you guys. How have you changed from like when you started to today? Lessons you've learned. How you've changed both as a leader and as a person.很好。最后一个问题。你创立了多家公司，你从大约20年前到现在有什么改变？也许我应该问在座的人。你从创业之初到今天，有什么改变？你学到了什么教训？你作为领导者和个人，有什么变化？
Elon MuskI think I'm probably more chill than I used to be. So I was probably a little I'm way more laidback than I used to be. Not that laid-back, but but more than I used to be, for sure. And one one of the things I found over time and I've mentioned this before is that in terms of recruiting people to the company or having people work at the company it their individual abilities and their intellectual capabilities matter a lot but also it also matters if they have a good heart. It's like it's not just about whether somebody has certain IQ or whatever but just they're a good person that matters a lot. I guess I don't know. I guess I've learned a lot. Although I feel like I still have a lot to learn and make a lot of mistakes. But I I think maybe the future AI will say not bad for a human.我觉得我比以前冷静多了。以前我可能有点……我现在比以前从容多了，不是说有多从容，但确实比以前强多了，这是肯定的。还有一件事是我随着时间慢慢领悟到的，我也提到过：在招募人才或者留住人才方面，一个人的个人能力和智识水平固然很重要，但他是不是一个好人，同样重要。不只是看某人的 IQ 或者什么，更重要的是他是否真的是个好人。总的来说，我不知道，我觉得我学到了很多，不过也觉得自己还有大量东西要学，也还在犯很多错误。但我想，也许未来的 AI 会评价说：作为一个人类，还不赖。
Jamie DimonListen, I before we thank Elon for coming, I just want to thank him just watching him build companies and I can't wait to watch the next 10 or 15 years about what you accomplish and what you dream of and getting to Mars and building new businesses and being creative. So Elon, I want to thank you behalf of everybody for coming here, sharing your ideas. There are brochures out there about the whole SpaceX thing. But Elon, thank you.听着，在感谢 Elon 来到这里之前，我想说，看着你建公司一直是我的一大享受，我也非常期待接下来的10到15年里，你将会取得的成就，你的梦想，登陆火星，开创新的业务，持续创新。Elon，代表所有在场的人，感谢你来到这里，分享你的想法。外面有关于 SpaceX 整件事的资料可以拿。Elon，谢谢你。
Elon MuskThank you. Thank you for having me.谢谢，谢谢你们的邀请。
Jamie DimonI will say that we are exactly one month away from the 4th of July and我要说，距离7月4日还有整整一个月——