HostAll right, everybody. We have a very special guest. Listen, we love all of you. This is the most amazing room of innovators in America. Uh, we love you all. It's a dinner of equals, but there can only be one number one. We're Forbes. We do rank things. And the Forbes 250 innovators, the number one innovator, and it wasn't that close, to be honest, was Elon Musk. So, we are very honored to have him join us. Elon, are you here?好了，各位。我们有一位非常特别的嘉宾。听着，我们爱你们所有人。这是全美最了不起的创新者云集的房间。我们爱你们每一位。这是一场平等者的晚宴，但第一名只能有一个。我们是 Forbes，我们喜欢排名。Forbes 250 位创新者中，第一名创新者——说实话，差距并不小——是 Elon Musk。所以我们非常荣幸请他加入我们。Elon，你在吗？
Elon MuskUh, yeah.啊，在。
HostOh, we're glad that you're here. Thank you. There he is.太好了，你在这里。谢谢你。他来了。
Elon MuskYou do like ranking things. It's true.你们确实喜欢排名嘛。没错。
HostHa! We do. We're good at it. And again, first, congratulations. It was not that close. There were a lot of battles in a lot of places, but number one was not in doubt. But anyway, this is a room of your people.哈！确实。我们很擅长这个。再次恭喜，差距真的不小。很多地方有过很多争夺，但第一名从未有过悬念。总之，这是一屋子你的同类人。
Elon MuskYeah, you—是啊，你们——
HostWell deserved. This is a room of your people. I will say they were asking the first question, and we want to get really nerdy about innovation. The first question though that everybody was asking is, all right, ask Elon. We had one of the great cases in the world of innovation over the last few weeks. What's Elon's verdict on the verdict today?实至名归。这是一屋子你的同类人。我要说，他们在问第一个问题，我们想深入聊聊创新。不过第一个问题，大家都在问：好吧，问问 Elon。过去几周，创新界发生了一场大官司。今天 Elon 对这个裁决有什么看法？
Elon MuskWhat do you mean, on me?你什么意思，关于我的？
HostI— that, um, the case in Oakland.我是说——奥克兰那个案子。
Elon MuskYes. Oh, oh, that verdict? It's like, what are you doing? Um, yeah, I guess just, well, they basically just decided that the staff would not pay things for fast. They were not actually whether or not they were— whether, um, you know, they've been unjustly enriched, or the Chaplin trust owned, which I think it is obviously the case. But I do think it's somewhat of a dubious situation, because what happened was, in by degrees. I mean, it wasn't stolen all at once. It was stolen one piece at a time. And so we have to say like, well, was there really even a basis for legal action before, um, you know, problems to steal them? I don't think there is, actually.哦，是那个裁决？就是——你们在干什么？呃，是的，我想，基本上他们只是认定，工作人员不需要为快速转型付出代价。他们实际上并没有裁定那些人是否——是否，你知道，存在不当得利，或者 Chaplin 信托拥有所有权——我认为显然是的。但我确实觉得这个局面有点存疑，因为所发生的事情是一步一步来的。我是说，它不是一次性被窃取的，而是一块一块地被窃取的。所以我们不得不说，在你知道、在它们被盗之前，法律诉讼的依据是否真的存在？我认为其实并不存在。
Elon MuskSo, like the first step— I don't know if I'll label this point, but the first step into adding a for-profit thing had a cap for-profit and was at a small scale. And also that all stock would revert to the charity upon the eventual artificial general intelligence. That clause is now being removed. So it will continue to be a for-profit after developing artificial general intelligence. That removal was quite recent, just in the last few weeks. So it is— this point is— it is a whatever $800 billion for-profit company somehow from a nonprofit. And I think this is a dangerous precedent to set, because if it means that someone can, um, start— take money as a nonprofit, convert that to a for-profit when it's successful, it undermines all charitable giving in America.所以，第一步——我不知道我是否会给这个定个说法——但第一步是加入一个有上限的营利实体，规模很小。而且所有股份在最终实现通用人工智能时都将归还给慈善机构。但这个条款现在正在被删除。也就是说，在开发出通用人工智能之后，它将继续是一家营利公司。这个删除是相当近期的事，就在过去几周。所以它现在是——这一点是——一家不知怎的从非营利机构变成了价值约 $800 billion 的营利公司。我认为这是一个危险的先例，因为这意味着有人可以——以非营利名义筹资，然后在成功后将其转变为营利实体——这会动摇美国所有的慈善捐赠体系。
HostIt certainly would. You'd see a lot of people starting to start nonprofits with a path towards for-profit.确实会。你会看到很多人开始以非营利为起点，然后谋划转为营利。
HostExactly. What do you got to lose?正是。你有什么损失呢？
HostRight. Exactly. What— um, you said on X you're appealing, optimistic about the appeal?对。正是。你——嗯，你在 X 上说你在上诉，对上诉结果乐观吗？
Elon MuskYeah, I think we necessarily have to appeal, because this will— this will set precedent, you know, which people can actually then essentially loot charities and use this case as a basis for doing so. Um, which I think would be a little—是的，我认为我们必须上诉，因为这将——这将树立先例，你知道，人们实际上可以以这个案子为基础去掏空慈善机构。呃，我认为那会有点——
HostLet's talk innovation. Your title we have up here— I mean, again, you're the CEO of four major companies. Even those companies have major companies within those companies. Was this part of the plan, or did it just happen?我们来聊聊创新吧。你现在的头衔——我是说，再说一遍，你是四家大公司的 CEO。就连这些公司内部还有更大的公司。这是计划好的，还是顺其自然发生的？
Elon MuskMore or less just happened. I mean— well, let's just say that when I was in college I wanted to be part of things that would change the world in a significant way. I didn't originally think I wanted to be doing things in AI, because AI was somewhat of a double-edged sword, but I did want to accelerate the transition to a sustainable energy economy, which is the sort of electric cars, solar, and batteries. And, you know, I think some kind of brain-machine interface that can give you cybernetic superpowers, I think is probably good. It could help people that have brain or spine injuries— you know, restore, enable people who never spoke for years to speak again, which we've done.基本上是顺其自然发生的。我是说——好吧，就这么说吧，当我还在大学的时候，我想参与能以重大方式改变世界的事情。我最初并不认为自己会涉足 AI，因为 AI 有点像一把双刃剑，但我确实想加速向可持续能源经济的转型，也就是电动汽车、太阳能和电池这一类。而且，你知道，我认为某种脑机接口能给你赛博格式的超能力，这可能是件好事。它可以帮助那些大脑或脊柱受损的人——恢复、让多年无法说话的人重新开口，而这我们已经做到了。
Elon MuskGet people eyesight who have lost both eyes or the optic nerve, or maybe have never even seen at all, blind from birth. By direct interface to the optical sensors in the brain, you can actually restore eyesight or give people eyesight that they've never had before. And you can enable people to walk again, which I think is profound. I mean, these are kind of Jesus-level things, you know. Let's say like when technologies are hitting like Jesus-level miracles— you know, like, yeah, that's pretty good.让失去双眼、视神经受损、甚至天生失明的人重获视力。通过与大脑中视觉传感器的直接接口，你实际上可以恢复视力，或赋予人们从未拥有过的视力。你还可以让人们重新走路，我认为这是件了不起的事。我是说，这些有点像耶稣级别的奇迹，你知道。就像，当技术触及耶稣级别的神迹——你知道，那真的挺厉害的。
HostHow do you— Again, it's asked a lot, but it's fun to ask it, too. How do you prioritize? I mean, because you're right, you've got multiple deities here. If these are Jesus-level solutions, which one do you serve?你怎么——这个问题问了很多次，但问起来还是很有趣。你怎么确定优先级？我是说，你说得对，你同时面对着多个神明。如果这些都是耶稣级别的解决方案，你到底服侍哪一位？
Elon MuskJesus level, you're like, "Okay, that's pretty good." And if SpaceX is about making life multi-planetary, expanding consciousness to the stars. And hopefully we will make a fundamental breakthrough later this year, which is having the first fully reusable orbital rocket, which is necessary in order to transport enough tonnage to the moon or Mars to create a self-growing city. Basically, to extend civilization to other planets.耶稣级别，你就会说：「好吧，这挺厉害的。」SpaceX 的使命是让生命成为多行星物种，把意识扩展到星辰之间。希望今年晚些时候我们能取得一个根本性突破，那就是第一枚完全可重复使用的入轨火箭——这对于向月球或火星运输足够多的物资、建立一个能够自我生长的城市是必不可少的。基本上，就是把文明延伸到其他星球。
Elon MuskI mean, I think probably you need to move a rough order of magnitude of about a million tons to the moon or to Mars to create enough of an industrial base to have the civilization there be self-growing, meaning— the acid test being, if the resupply ships from Earth stop coming for any reason, does the civilization on the moon or Mars continue to grow, or does it die out? And I think that's a fundamental branching point in the future of civilization. Are we a multi-planet space-faring civilization, or are we stuck on one planet forever?我认为，大概需要向月球或火星运送大约一百万吨的东西，才能建立足够的工业基础，让那里的文明实现自我生长——检验标准是：如果来自地球的补给船因任何原因停止抵达，月球或火星上的文明是继续成长还是消亡？我认为这是文明未来的一个根本性分叉点。我们究竟是一个多星球航天文明，还是永远被困在一个星球上？
Elon MuskAnd I do want to emphasize— I mean, like, being a multi-planet civilization doesn't mean like we leave Earth and go somewhere else, cuz that would just be a single-planet civilization somewhere else.我想强调——我是说，成为多行星文明并不是说我们离开地球去别的地方，因为那只不过是在别处的单行星文明。
HostRight. On a lesser place, probably.对，而且可能是个条件更差的地方。
Elon MuskYeah, in a tougher place to live than here by far. Earth is extremely easy and comfortable compared to the moon, Mars, or pretty much anywhere else. But, you know, I think at some point we want to be a space-faring civilization. We want to be out there among the stars.是的，比这里艰难多了。与月球、火星或几乎任何其他地方相比，地球是极其轻松舒适的。但你知道，我认为在某个时刻，我们希望成为一个航天文明，在星海之间遨游。
HostSo these are— again, these are huge things you're dealing with. So when you try to figure out, when you get up every morning, is it just kind of like a buffet, or do you have kind of a plan on what you're going to focus on? Cuz that's something a lot of innovators here have to deal with on a much smaller scale.所以这些——再说一遍，你要应对的都是巨大的事情。那么你怎么分配优先级？每天早上起来，是随意取用，还是有一套专注计划？因为这里很多创新者在小得多的规模上也面临同样的问题。
Elon MuskWell, I guess I don't really get up and say, "Hey, what should I innovate today?" you know, type of thing. It's really just— I've both building the technologies necessary to extend life beyond Earth. There's the Starlink internet, which is rebuilding the entire internet in space, but better, you know. I guess that's kind of pretty cool. There's— yeah, the Optimus robot that we're developing at Tesla, the self-driving cars, solar power at scale, you know.嗯，我想我不会起床就说：「今天该创新什么？」之类的。这其实只是——我同时在建设将生命延伸到地球之外所需的各种技术。有 Starlink 互联网，它正在把整个互联网在太空中重建，而且更好，你知道。我想这挺酷的。还有——是的，我们在 Tesla 研发的 Optimus 机器人，自动驾驶汽车，规模化太阳能，等等。
HostBig stuff. A lot of them are pointing to becoming an interplanetary— Is there a time when you could see again putting these companies together and just running one big company? I mean, some of you have a— but do you envision that? And would that help you in terms of making these things mesh?大事业。其中很多都指向成为星际文明——你是否设想过有朝一日把这些公司合并，只运营一家大公司？我是说，你们之间有——但你有这个构想吗？这样是否有助于让这些事情协同？
Elon MuskWell, I think it's difficult for me to sort of comment on that, you know, because there's publicly traded companies and— one is publicly traded and one is, you know, about to be. So it would be difficult to, you know.嗯，我认为我很难对这个问题发表评论，你知道，因为涉及上市公司——一家是上市公司，另一家即将上市。所以很难，你知道。
HostNo problem. We'll move on. Although— we did, you know, the reports today that you might file your SpaceX S-1 this week. Is that a go?没关系，我们换个话题。虽然——今天有报道说你可能本周就会提交 SpaceX 的 S-1。是真的吗？
Elon MuskI think I'm not allowed to comment on these things. There's like a quiet period or something to that effect.我想我不被允许对这些事情发表评论。好像有个静默期或类似的规定。
HostThat is the beauty of going public or being in that quiet period. Do you have a favorite of all your— we know you love all your children, all your companies. Is there a favorite among your companies?这就是上市或处于静默期的妙处。在你所有的——我们知道你爱你所有的孩子、所有的公司——里面有没有最喜欢的？
Elon MuskWell, no. I mean, I'm not really going to say— that's like, what's your favorite kid type of thing, you know. I think you can't really say that, you know.嗯，没有。我是说，我不会真的说——这就像问你最喜欢哪个孩子一样，你知道。我觉得你真的没法回答这个，你知道。
HostIf it's not your favorite company, who's your favorite role model as an innovator historically?如果不是最喜欢的公司，那在历史上的创新者中，你最崇拜谁作为榜样？
Elon MuskWell, I guess, you know, I'm obviously a big fan of Nikola Tesla, since I named the company after him. But also I like, you know— I don't know, Edison is great, too. Like, some people don't like Edison really, cuz— he just did some pretty impressive stuff. And like General Electric is like Edison's company. I mean, I certainly admire the great scientists, engineers, but anyone I admire, you know— Ben Franklin, Shakespeare, Newton, Einstein, you know.嗯，我想，你知道，我显然非常崇拜 Nikola Tesla，因为我用他的名字命名了公司。但我也喜欢——我不知道，Edison 也很厉害。有些人不太喜欢 Edison，因为——但他做了相当令人印象深刻的事。比如 General Electric 就是 Edison 的公司。我当然也钦佩那些伟大的科学家和工程师，但我钦佩的任何人，你知道——Ben Franklin、莎士比亚、牛顿、爱因斯坦，你知道。
HostWe did— the usual suspects. We surveyed historians, and so— you were number one on the 250 living list. We did a 250 historical, and the top three were Edison, you said it, Franklin, and Henry Ford. So we should have had you as a judge.我们——惯常的几位大名。我们调查了历史学家，所以——你在 250 位在世人物中排名第一。我们也做了 250 位历史人物的排名，前三名是 Edison（你提到了）、Franklin，以及 Henry Ford。所以我们应该请你来当评委。
Elon MuskPeople don't realize, more or less than people realize, cuz— I mean, he basically invented mass manufacturing of complex objects. Like, people didn't really know how to do that before Ford. And like Ford actually created the automotive industry of Earth really. Cuz he pretty much started what became General Motors, and then he kind of got, I don't know, kicked out of that or something, and then started Ford Motor Company. And really developed mass manufacturing of complex objects. It's quite a tricky thing, and then everyone just pretty much copied him.人们低估了他，超过了他应得的程度——因为，我是说，他基本上发明了复杂产品的大规模制造。在 Ford 之前，人们真的不知道怎么做这件事。Ford 实际上创建了地球上的汽车工业。因为他基本上创办了后来变成 General Motors 的公司，然后被踢出去了还是怎么了，之后创办了 Ford Motor Company。他真正发展了复杂产品的大规模制造，这是件相当难做到的事，然后大家基本上都照着他的方式学。
HostWhat's amazing if you look at the historical list and even the current list is just how much innovation comes out of America, and how much of the things that everyone takes for granted came out of America. Do you have a favorite innovator who's living today, besides you know— anybody in this room, or anybody— Who are some of your favorite entrepreneurs, innovators you admire who are your contemporaries now?如果你看这份历史名单，甚至是现在的名单，令人惊叹的是有多少创新来自美国，有多少大家习以为常的事物源自美国。你有没有最喜欢的在世创新者？除了你知道的——这屋子里的任何人，或者任何人——你最钦佩的当代创业者、创新者有哪些？
Elon MuskWell, hmm, I mean— I guess I don't— I mean, I don't really think about these things that much, but— well, I mean, I guess, you know, Jensen Huang at Nvidia is doing pretty great in terms of inventing, you know, developing the AI computers.嗯，我想——我其实不太思考这些，但——我是说，我想，你知道，Nvidia 的 Jensen Huang 在发明、开发 AI 计算机这方面做得相当出色。
HostWell, you mostly mentioned Jensen and— Listen, you were early warning about the dangers of AI, but also you've been somebody who's helping pioneer a lot of great things that come out of AI. Right now, where are you on the scale about being petrified or excited?好，你主要提到了 Jensen——听着，你是早期警告 AI 危险的人，但你同时也是推动 AI 诸多伟大成果的先驱之一。现在，在恐惧和兴奋这个量表上，你处于哪个位置？
Elon MuskWell, I think I'm like so simultaneously both, honestly. It's like— I mean, at this point, like— when I go to sleep, there's like some AI breakthrough. When I wake up, there's some AI breakthrough. And by lunchtime, there's another AI breakthrough. So it's like a head-spinner at this point. It's pretty obvious that we're going to have AI that is vastly smarter than humans. And already in some ways, it already is. It seems like AI unequivocally smarter than humans in every way, including in innovation, is probably not more than a year or two away, it would seem. That's— it's heavy to think about. I don't know. Jesus, this is kind of worrying. I hope it's nice to us, you know.嗯，老实说，我同时处于两端。就是——我是说，现在这个时刻，当我入睡时，就有某个 AI 突破。当我醒来，又有某个 AI 突破。到午餐时间，又是一个 AI 突破。所以到了这个地步，简直让人头晕目眩。有一点已经非常明显：我们将拥有在智能上远超人类的 AI。而且在某些方面，它已经是了。感觉 AI 在所有方面——包括创新——都明确超越人类的时刻，可能距现在不超过一两年，似乎就是这样。这——想起来挺沉重的。我不知道。我的天，这确实有点令人担忧。希望它对我们好一点，你知道。
HostWhat— um, right, you know, when you look—什么——呃，对，你知道，当你看——
Elon MuskI'm happy about all the things we've asked it to do.至少对于我们要求它做的所有事情，我是高兴的。
HostWhat's something— listen, you have a better position to see this than anybody pretty much. What's going to happen in 5 years that you're seeing, that maybe a lot of people aren't seeing, that's going to blow people's minds, that will be doable in 5 years?有没有什么——听着，你比任何人都有更好的视角来看这件事。5 年后会发生什么——你看到了，而很多人可能还没看到——会让人们目瞪口呆、但在 5 年内可以实现的事？
Elon MuskIn 5 years, we'll have probably— so, 5 years being say 2031— I think digital intelligence will exceed the sum of all human intelligence.5 年后，也就是大约 2031 年——我认为数字智能将超越全人类智能的总和。
HostMhm.嗯。
Elon MuskThat there will be, in 5 years, probably— there might be at least a 100 million humanoid robots, but maybe a billion.5 年内，可能会有至少 1 亿台人形机器人，但也许会有 10 亿台。
HostYeah. All right. The—是的。好——
Elon MuskLet me— and I would predict that the economy is probably twice its current size in five, maybe six years. And seven— at five to seven years. Because you're going to hit a doubling period, you know, where the economic output is increasing so fast that, you know, plus minus a few years, you'll see giant changes.让我再说——我预测经济规模在五年、也许六年内可能达到现在的两倍。五到七年之内。因为你将迎来一个倍增期，你知道，经济产出增长如此之快，以至于正负几年之内，你会看到巨大的变化。
HostWhat— a couple follow-up questions on that. When do you see the first data center in space? Again, you have a better vision on that than pretty much anybody. You know— if when we're going to Mars, you're clearly going to be leading the way. When do we get a colony on the moon? When do we get a colony on Mars? So, three-pronged question. Data center in space, humans on the moon, humans on Mars, timeline.什么——有几个后续问题。你认为第一个太空数据中心会在什么时候出现？你对这个问题的判断比几乎任何人都更有前瞻性。你知道——如果我们要去火星，你显然会引领这一切。我们什么时候能在月球建立殖民地？什么时候能在火星建立殖民地？三个问题：太空数据中心、人类登月、人类登火星，时间表。
Elon MuskYeah, certainly space is much easier than people may think. I mean, SpaceX at this point has 10,000 satellites in orbit right now. And in the future with Starship we'll be launching over 10,000 communication satellites per year, each one of which is much more capable than our current satellites. So you can expect, you know, that probably 100 times more communications capability than currently exists from space. But that will pale in comparison to the tonnage of AI satellites.是的，太空其实比人们想象的容易得多。我是说，SpaceX 目前有 10,000 颗卫星在轨运行。未来有了 Starship，我们每年将发射超过 10,000 颗通信卫星，每颗都比我们现在的卫星强大得多。所以你可以预期，来自太空的通信能力大约是目前的 100 倍。但这与 AI 卫星的吨位相比，将会显得微不足道。
Elon MuskI mean, it's always helpful to use the physics tools of thinking in the limit. If you think in the limit, what is the most amount of AI compute you could possibly bring to bear? And the way to access power that's far beyond anything on Earth is in space. So these are humbling ways to maybe frame the problem and see how tiny we are. Here on Earth we are like microbes on a dust mote compared to the sun.我是说，用物理思维在极限条件下思考总是有帮助的。如果你在极限情况下思考，你能调动的最大 AI 算力是多少？而获取远超地球任何能源的方式就在太空。所以这些是以令人敬畏的方式来构建问题、看清我们有多渺小的框架。在地球上，我们就像尘埃颗粒上的微生物，对比太阳。
Elon MuskSo, all of human civilization currently uses less than a trillionth of the power emitted by the sun. Much less than a trillionth. All human energy, counted as generously as you could possibly imagine, is much less than a trillionth of the sun's energy. So that means if you were to increase civilizational energy harnessed by a million, you would still be much less than a millionth of the sun's energy harnessed.目前，全人类文明消耗的能量不足太阳辐射能量的万亿分之一。远低于万亿分之一。无论你怎么慷慨估算，全人类的能量总和都远低于太阳能量的万亿分之一。这意味着，如果你把人类所利用的文明能量提升一百万倍，仍然远低于太阳能量的百万分之一。
Elon MuskAnother way to think about it is— cuz people sometimes say, "What about this form of power generation or that form of power generation?" I'm like, "Everything is irrelevant compared to the sun." The sun is 99.8% of mass in the solar system. If all mass that was not the sun was burnt, and you extracted the absolute maximum amount of energy from all mass that is not the sun, the amount of energy produced by the sun would still round out to 100% of the energy produced in the solar system. And then if you somehow teleported two more Jupiters into our solar system and burnt them, too, the sun would still be 100% of power, rounding up. So really, everything is just extremely tiny compared to the sun.另一种思考方式是——因为人们有时会问：「那这种发电方式怎么样，那种怎么样？」我就会说：「与太阳相比，一切都无关紧要。」太阳占太阳系总质量的 99.8%。如果把所有不是太阳的质量都燃烧掉，并从中提取最大量的能量，太阳产生的能量仍然四舍五入到太阳系产生的能量的 100%。然后如果你以某种方式将两个额外的木星传送到我们太阳系并把它们也燃烧掉，太阳的功率四舍五入仍然是 100%。所以一切与太阳相比，真的都极其渺小。
HostYep.是的。
Elon MuskSo that whole— when you go to space, if you want to climb the Kardashev scale in any meaningful way whatsoever, you have to go to space. And, you know, our rough estimate is that you could probably do a terawatt a year of solar-powered AI satellites, launched from Earth. That would require, let's say, something like 10 million tons a year of payload to orbit, at 100 kW per ton. And that'd be a terawatt per year. The average power usage in the United States is half a terawatt. So that would mean you'd be launching twice the amount of AI power than the entire electricity consumption in the United States per year.所以——当你进入太空，如果你想以任何有意义的方式攀登 Kardashev 指数，你必须进入太空。我们的粗略估计是，每年大概可以做到 1 terawatt 的太阳能 AI 卫星，从地球发射。这大约需要每年向轨道输送 1,000 万吨有效载荷，以每吨 100 kW 计算。那就是每年 1 terawatt。美国的平均用电量是 0.5 terawatt。所以这意味着你每年发射的 AI 算力将是美国全部电力消耗的两倍。
HostYeah. Yeah.是的，是的。
Elon MuskBut this is— we're not breaking any physics here. This is all achievable. Now if you want to take that up several more orders of magnitude, then the thing to do is to build a base on the moon. And construct a mass driver. And build the solar panels and radiators on the moon. Chips you could probably bring from Earth, but build those on the moon, too. And that would enable you to do about a petawatt per year of solar-powered AI. And I'm not sure how much AI we need up there, but that's a lot.但这——我们没有突破任何物理定律。这一切都是可以实现的。现在，如果你想再提升几个数量级，那就要在月球上建立基地，建造质量驱动器，在月球上建造太阳能板和散热器。芯片你或许可以从地球运来，但也在月球上生产。这样每年能实现大约 1 petawatt 的太阳能 AI 算力。我不确定我们需要多少 AI 算力，但那是很大的量。
HostThat is a lot. Yeah. What—那确实很大。是的。什么——
Elon MuskIt would be vastly greater than the Earth's economy. Earth's economy would be, yeah, really inconsequential by comparison with that.那将远远超过地球的经济体量。地球的经济体量相比之下，是的，真的微不足道了。
HostNo, that's a vision of abundance, for sure. I know you've had quite a busy day, and you always have a busy day, so we want to be mindful of your time. So I just have two last questions. One, there must be— I mean, again, you keep on coming up with these big ideas and you keep executing them. What's a big idea in your head that you haven't deployed yet, that you'd like to?不，那确实是一个充裕的愿景。我知道你今天很忙，你每天都很忙，所以我们想珍惜你的时间。我最后只有两个问题。第一，肯定还有——我是说，你不断提出这些宏大构想并不断将其落地。你脑子里有什么还没实施、但你想做的大想法？
Elon MuskWell, I did say for the longest time that people ought to build tunnels, and then everyone thought I was joking, and then I was like, "Fine, well, let's just create a company, the Boring Company, to build tunnels." Cuz this is an obvious way to reduce traffic to zero by going 3D with your transport system. Just as we go 3D with the buildings, it's obviously logical to expect that you won't have traffic if you have buildings that are 3D and a transport system that is 2D— then everyone tries to go in and out of the 3D building at the same time. But if you have a transport network that is three-dimensional with tunnels going all over the place, then you can address any arbitrary level of traffic.嗯，我确实提了很长时间应该建隧道，但大家都以为我在开玩笑，然后我就想：「好吧，那就创建一家公司——the Boring Company——来挖隧道吧。」因为这是一种通过将交通系统变为三维来把堵车消除为零的显而易见的方式。就像我们把建筑做成三维的，显然同样的逻辑也成立——如果你有三维的建筑，却有一个二维的交通系统，那所有人就会同时进出这些三维建筑。但如果你有一个三维的交通网络，隧道四通八达，那就可以应对任意级别的交通量。
Elon MuskNow, I encourage other people to start tunneling companies, cuz the Boring Company is the only one, as far as I can tell, that's taking this seriously.现在，我鼓励其他人也来创建隧道公司，因为 the Boring Company 是目前据我所知唯一认真对待这件事的公司。
HostTo be the only boring company, right? So—成为唯一一家无聊的公司，对吧？所以——
Elon MuskYeah, honestly, there's like a lot of opportunity, you know, in tunnels. And—是啊，说真的，隧道领域有很多机会，你知道。而且——
HostThere really is.确实是。
Elon MuskAnd it's quite hard work building these things. So I hope other people do it, too. Okay. I guess there's probably a lot of opportunity in synthetic medicine. So with— like, these days you can basically create custom, you know, RNA. Well, I think the sort of— we're going from a situation where medicine has been analog, where we kind of like just find drugs kind of by accident most of the time. Like finding sticks in the forest that, you know, seem like— this stick seems like a useful club, type of thing. It's quite primitive how we found medication in the past.而且建这些东西是相当艰苦的工作。所以我希望其他人也来做。好，我想合成医学领域可能也有很多机会。如今你基本上可以制造定制的 RNA，你知道。我认为这种趋势是——我们正在从一个医学处于模拟时代的状况转变，在那个时代，我们发现药物基本上靠偶然，就像在森林里捡树枝，你知道——这根树枝看起来像个有用的棍子，差不多就是这类原始方式。我们过去发现药物的方式是相当原始的。
Elon MuskNow, since we can now construct synthetic RNA, you can effectively think of the future of medicine as being digital. Like, if you just know what to program into that synthetic RNA strand, you can basically, I think, cure almost anything.现在，既然我们可以合成 RNA，你可以有效地把医学的未来理解为数字化的。就像，如果你知道如何为那条合成 RNA 链编程，你基本上就可以，我认为，治愈几乎任何疾病。
HostHm. All right. Challenge to the room: digital medicine and 3D transportation. Let's go. Let's give Elon some competition. All right, last question. Electric aircraft, there's probably an opportunity there. I think there's startups in that field.嗯。好。挑战在座各位：数字医学与三维交通。让我们行动起来。给 Elon 一点竞争。好，最后一个问题。电动飞机——那里可能有机会。我想那个领域有创业公司。
Elon MuskWhat kind of aircraft?什么类型的飞机？
HostElectric aircraft.电动飞机。
Elon MuskYeah, electric aircraft. I'm sure that's coming.是的，电动飞机。我相信那是必然到来的。
HostWhen we get together— and, you know, hopefully, who knows, the way technology is going, some of us will be here in another 250 years for the Forbes 500 celebration of innovation. And again, you're still building it, but when you think about your legacy— and I know it's early, but what would make you feel good when people look back the way you talked about Edison and Franklin? What would you like people to say about you?当我们再次相聚——而且你知道，希望这个技术发展的势头，我们中的一些人能在 250 年后参加 Forbes 500 创新庆典。而且你仍然在建设中，但当你考虑自己的历史遗产——我知道现在还早，但回顾 Edison 和 Franklin 的方式，你希望人们怎么评价你？
Elon MuskYou played a useful role in the advancement of civilization.在推进文明进步的过程中，发挥了有益的作用。
HostPlay with end. And I think— by the way, again, this is the most incredible room in America today. I think that's true for all of us. So let's take inspiration. You all are great, but he's number one. Elon Musk, thank you for joining us here at this—以有益结尾。我认为——顺便说一句，这真的是今天全美最了不起的房间。我认为我们所有人都是如此。所以让我们从中汲取灵感。你们都很棒，但他是第一名。Elon Musk，谢谢你今天来到——
Elon MuskFor all of humanity— that's what the AI will say.为了全人类——那才是 AI 会说的话。
HostFair. Thank you again. Thank you for your time and all that. And thank you. Now we're going to let you go and we're going to bring the other award winners up. But again, Elon Musk, again, thank you for your time and all your good thoughts.说得在理。再次感谢你。感谢你的时间和这些深刻见解。谢谢你。现在我们要送你离开，然后请其他获奖者上台。再次感谢 Elon Musk，感谢你的时间和所有精彩的分享。